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I had trouble closing my dresser drawers this afternoon. I pushed harder on the thick padding of shirts and pants. No movement. It was full – really, really full. I tossed the remaining pieces of clothing from the neatly folded laundry pile back onto my bed.
Now I must interject, it’s not that this dresser [...]

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The Case Against Adolescence Book Giveaway

Beauty From the Heart is giving away my favorite book.

The Case Against Adolescence Opposite Way

Not only did Alex and Brett interview Leeland, but on visiting Leeland’s site, I found you can actually listen to the entire album online for free. That’s awesome.

The Case Against Adolescence Comments Issue

Wordpress (or my website) is acting up. For some reason, Wordpress is not alerting me to all your comments needing moderation. So, if you have a comment that hasn’t been moderated – email me at agenttimblog[at]gmail.com.

The Case Against Adolescence President McCain?

I hate to say it, but I’m with Joe on this one.

The Case Against Adolescence 3,100.

That’s right, 3,100 comments can be found on this blog. I’m closing in on 350,000 words as well found within almost 400 posts.

A Political Perusal

Travis puts up a “political perusal” with the topic: The War In Iraq–Right or Wrong. Everyone is pro-war– and I wondered if we have any anti-war readers in our midst?

Check it out–and pray for me tonight, if you remember, as I’ll be playing the guitar and singing for the youth tonight, and my throat is a little sore. And I may be debating against the infallibility of the Bible. I’m trying to prove that today’s version of the Bible is corrupted by time and copies of copies of copies.

UPDATE:

I’m taking a class where we have to debate either side (A resolution-type question which you have to defend or attack). It’s all about the “Case For Christ” book by Lee Strobel. I just happened to be arguing against Christianity this particular night.

The funny thing was, I accidentally convinced the other side of my point, and they believed me afterwards—so I had to correct them!!

I don’t believe we have to go on faith alone. There is plenty of evidence out there, and I may write a post on that, so I can clear up my theology here :) .

25 Responses to “A Political Perusal”

  1. David Ketter Says:

    Question about that debate…do you actually believe that or is it something to hone your skills?

  2. Travis Says:

    Dito David’s question.

    Thanks for the link!

    Travis

  3. Brett Harris Says:

    Ditto David and Travis’s question.

    And, if it is something you really believe, I’d be interested to discuss it with you (if I had the time).

  4. Michael Brett Says:

    Hm, if anything, “debating against the infallibility of the Bible” may not be the best way to put it. Because, as far as I can tell, you do believe that the Bible, in the original manuscripts, is infallible. The Bible is infallible, translations aren’t. Care to clarify as to what you meant by this?

  5. Alex Jordan Harris Says:

    Ditto David, Travis, and Brett’s question.

    Also, how “corrupted” are we talking about? Do you mean that our modern Bible lacks all authority as the Word of God? I believe the scholarly consensus, (lower criticism, as it is called) is that the manuscripts in our possession today are extremely accurate.

  6. Tim Says:

    I do not believe that. It’s to hone in on debate skills, and help those on the other side be able to defend their faith.

    My debate point was to prove that our English Bible must be believed by faith in those who translated it. But I really don’t think that’s the case. These scholars are brilliant men who can be trusted. And we’re seeing daily a new amount of evidence pointing to the infallibility of our scripture today.

    In my arguement, I conceded that the manuscripts were accurate, but that our Bible–the one I had sitting in front of me–was not as accurate and had errors. Here’s my opening statement:

    ·The modern day version of the Bible is NOT what the author’s really wrote.

    Evidence points to hundreds of thousands of differences in the manuscripts found.

    Hundreds of thousands of differences–you don’t put those off lightly. They’re something to seriously consider, and really look into. The oldest known manuscript of the Bible has been seen by only 4 scholars–what if any of them lie? That’s hard to put off. Four people–that’s it. And the oldest Bible isn’t even original, it’s a copy of a copy of a copy. That’s not saying much for the Bible.

    We see in recent works of the Bible where the translators put questionable verses in brackets. Take for example Mark 16:9-20 in the New Revised Standard Version.

    It’s funny–in the translation we are able to pick two seperate endings to the gospel of Mark. In addition, we can read verse 14 as I read above, or we can pick this version:

    “F137: Other ancient authorities add, in whole or in part, [And they excused themselves, saying, "This age of lawlessness and unbelief is under Satan, who does not allow the truth and power of God to prevail over the unclean things of the spirits. Therefore reveal your righteousness now"--thus they spoke to Christ. And Christ replied to them, "The term of years of Satan's power has been fulfilled, but other terrible things draw near. And for those who have sinned I was handed over to death, that they may return to the truth and sin no more, that they may inherit the spiritual and imperishable glory of righteousness that is in heaven."]

    Now, what’s wrong with this picture? Two completely different translations? How can we be sure? In all reality, we can only accept this material by faith–which we are not talking about in this debate–and accept what these men translate into our language. Copies of copies of copies–plus translations equals a disaster.

    Changes of words, phrases, added passages, and words lacking in translations don’t add up.

    It’s funny, as we look again at Mark, that we see how translators can pick and choose. And we have to worry about that. Take for instance Mark 1:41:

    In the NIV: ” 41Filled with compassion, Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” he said. “Be clean!”

    But the frightening evidence points to a totally different reaction from Jesus. Some of the earliest manuscripts say that Jesus became angry or indignant at the leper’s intrusion. I know that may sound small, but who’s to say that it didn’t happen more than once? Perhaps we only have small errors in the manuscripts up to the point where they began to be translated–in other words, our Bible–the English Bible–may be missing material, it has errors in it, and additions, and the interpretation of those who translated the material! It’s totally based on faith.”

    How valid is that arguement?

  7. Tim Says:

    I’ll add quickly that I changed some of the wording i n the statement above, in the prep time before the informal debate.

  8. jettybetty Says:

    Once again a very interesting discussion, AT!

    Although I agree with most of what you say about the Bible–it can be copies of copies–I wonder if you have ever found a discrepancy in a salvation doctrine?

    My bottom line belief is that God is not out to see how confused He can make us–He is powerful and sovereign and I trust Him to protect His Word–so I can have a copy that allows me to understand Him. What do you think about that?

    As far as the war–I vote confused.

    My Bible says to love your enemies–not shoot them.

    My Bible says to turn the other cheek–not drive armoured vehicles over my enemies.

    I do pray for the service men/women at war. I do appreciate my freedom–and I probably don’t know how much.

    However, if I study the history of war, I could make a case that it rarely “fixes” problems.

    It seems to me God’s ways are so different from men’s. I wonder what Christians would be like if we loved as He did–and trusted His protection. The worst thing that could happen to believers is a quicker trip to heaven. I just cannot imagine what kind of impact this would have on an unbelieving world.

    JB

  9. MountainGal Says:

    jettybetty:

    Something worth thinking about is that God Himself sent His people (the Israelites, in the old testement) into war many, many times. There are times when evil is so great that we must fight against it.

  10. MountainGal Says:

    That should be: *Old Testament. Sorry! :-(

  11. Travis Says:

    *Laughs @ 5 Bloggers ready to fix Tim theology about the infallibility of the Bible*

  12. LS4C AKA-Lauren Says:

    OK I am not pro-war. My brother is in Iraq, I used to think it was worth it, but when a missle landed in his camp,my support for the “war” stopped right there. My brother was in Basic Training for 9 WEEKS, & he didn’t go to war right away,but I do know people who have, so why are we waiting a year,while our men get killed,to train the Iraqi soldiers! Why are we risking our MEN & WOMEN’S LIFE???? Just so we can clean up after them!

    On a different note, I wish you would read Matthew 5:18. The Bible can’t change! Thanks for listening to my ramblings.
    Lauren

  13. David Ketter Says:

    “Laughs @ 5 Bloggers ready to fix Tim theology about the infallibility of the Bible”

    How’d you know? :P

    Glad that was straightened out, lol…

  14. Tim Says:

    “Laughs @ 5 Bloggers ready to fix Tim theology about the infallibility of the Bible”

    LOL. I thought you guys were my friends! You really think I believed that the Bible was full of errors?

    I’m taking a class where we have to debate either side (A resolution-type question which you have to defend or attack). It’s all about the “Case For Christ” book by Lee Strobel. I just happened to be arguing against Christianity this particular night.

    The funny thing was, I accidentally convinced the other side of my point, and they believed me afterwards–so I had to correct them!!

    I don’t believe we have to go on faith alone. There is plenty of evidence out there, and I may write a post on that, so I can clear up my theology here :) .

    As for war…maybe someone has a defense?

  15. David Ketter Says:

    I’ve already written on the fact that the Iraq war is JUST…just check it out at http://theaccount.blogspot.com/2005/10/iraq-war-just.html

  16. Kaitlin Atmore Says:

    I don’t think that we need to be pro-war or anti-war. Being a foreigner, I don’t even really know why there is a war. But we all need to trust the leaders of your country and try and understand why this needs to be done. The world isn’t going to get any better. The Israelites, when they went to war, didn’t always want to go. But God was telling them to do it. He’s the unltimate authority that we need to listen to and obey. If people are going to Iraq because they think that God is calling them there, then they should be ready to die for and becuase of Him.

  17. Lindsey Says:

    Hey, I read that book! The Case For Christ, I mean. I thought it was pretty good.

  18. Lindsey Says:

    As for me, I am pro-war. I think that we’ve helped them out a whole lot in Iraq. Bush did the right thing.

  19. Kaitlin Atmore Says:

    However, whose place is it to go and take action in Iraq? This may sound like I’m contradicting myself but what were the “motives” behind his decision to go to war? Who or what was he doing it for? The Israelites went to war for God, they were willing to die. Simple. The US is at war with Iraq, why? Is it for the United States (a tangible thing that is just going to dwindle into nothing anyway)or for God? I really contradicted myself there. Whew!

  20. Lindsey Says:

    Hmm, good question. I went to The Account, and I now qoute David Ketter:

    “The United States government has met all three of these requirements and has waged (and is currently waging) a Just War against tyranny and terror in the desert nation of Iraq. Thomas Aquinas – an astute scholar grounded in the word of God and knowledgeable in thelogy and philosophy, paved the way for Christians to weigh whether or not a war is just or not. By this higher standard – which is untouchable to any politico, humanitarian, or security official – the fight for Iraq is absolutely justified and right.”

    I reccomend reading the rest of the article, too- it’s good stuff.

  21. Lindsey Says:

    Um, you guys…this is going to sound like I’m really blog illiterate (and to tell the truth, I am! I only just heard about blogs when my pastor emailed me with this link a few weeks ago!!) but I was wondering why some people’s names are in italics and small, gray letters (like mine) while others are in big, red letters. Are the red lettered names members, or something? Thanks!!!

  22. Kaitlin Says:

    I think that it’s because you don’t fill in the little website block thingy when you want to comment. I don’t really know tho..

  23. Tim Says:

    Yep. That’s right. And if you guys would like to know , I’m planning on going back to the original and much nicer looking Agent Tim Online that’s custom designed. I think you’ll really, really like it. It has the coolest headers that change every time you come, and it’s a little easier to read and navigate.

  24. Lindsey Says:

    Cool

  25. Nathan Malone Says:

    Is it not hypocritical to invade Iraq over the killing of a few thousand Iraqis while we as a nation murder millions of innocent humans under the guise of “abortion”?

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