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I had trouble closing my dresser drawers this afternoon. I pushed harder on the thick padding of shirts and pants. No movement. It was full - really, really full. I tossed the remaining pieces of clothing from the neatly folded laundry pile back onto my bed.
Now I must interject, it’s not that this dresser [...]

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The Case Against Adolescence Book Giveaway

Beauty From the Heart is giving away my favorite book.

The Case Against Adolescence Opposite Way

Not only did Alex and Brett interview Leeland, but on visiting Leeland’s site, I found you can actually listen to the entire album online for free. That’s awesome.

The Case Against Adolescence Comments Issue

Wordpress (or my website) is acting up. For some reason, Wordpress is not alerting me to all your comments needing moderation. So, if you have a comment that hasn’t been moderated - email me at agenttimblog[at]gmail.com.

The Case Against Adolescence President McCain?

I hate to say it, but I’m with Joe on this one.

The Case Against Adolescence 3,100.

That’s right, 3,100 comments can be found on this blog. I’m closing in on 350,000 words as well found within almost 400 posts.

Created to Die?


Psalm 51:5 - “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.”

A regular commenter, Lindsey, asked a very intriguing question on one of my latest posts on the latest horrors of abortion. I’ll answer the question–and start diving in to Calvinism, if you don’t mind:

“Tim, what do you think happens to all these aborted babies? Do you think that they go to heaven, or hell? It is a hard question, because our sin involves Adamic Sin Nature, and Personal Sin. Babies that are aborted have Adamic sin, but not personal sin. What’s your take on this?”

You’re right, it is a hard question.

As Lindsey asked, wouldn’t some babies who are aborted go to heaven, and some not go to heaven? Would some be of the elect, and others not?

I don’t believe so. I believe that God knows that that child will be born–he knows everything that will happen to it in the future, including it’s early death. He is Sovereign. And being Sovereign, He will take that child to heaven. He knows it will be murdered.

Wayne Grudem says “God is able to save infants in an unusual way, apart from their hearing and understanding the Gospel, by bringing regeneration to them very early, sometimes even before birth. This regeneration is probably also followed at once by a nascent, intuitive awareness of God and trust in him at an extremely early age, but this is something we simply cannot understand.”

It’s interesting to note that David believed he would see his son in heaven, an infant who had died because of David’s sin. Other than that, we really don’t see God speaking about infants dying.

Theologians have long debated an “age of accountability.” The Bible does not reveal an “age” at which moral accountability arrives, but we do know by observation and experience that maturing human beings do develop a capacity for moral reasoning at some point. Dismissing the idea of an “age” of accountability, John MacArthur refers to a “condition” of accountability. I most often speak of a point or capacity of moral accountability. At this point of moral development, the maturing child knows the difference between good and evil — and willingly chooses to sin.

The Bible offers a fascinating portrait of this truth in the first chapter of Deuteronomy. In response to Israel’s sin and rebellion, God condemns that generation of adults to death in the wilderness, never to see the land of promise. “Not one of these men, this evil generation, shall see the good land which I swore to give to your fathers.” (Deuteronomy 1:35). But God specifically exempted young children and infants from this condemnation — and He even explained why He did so: “Moreover, your little ones who you said would become prey, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good and evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it” (Deuteronomy 1:39). These little ones were not punished for their parents’ sins, but were accepted by God into the promised land. I believe that this offers a sound basis for our confidence that God deals with young children differently than He deals with those who are capable of deliberate and conscious sin.

Based on these arguments, I believe that we can have confidence that God receives all infants into heaven.

Salvation is all of grace, and God remains forever sovereign in the entire process of our salvation. The Bible clearly teaches the doctrine of election, but it nowhere suggests that all those who die in infancy are not among the elect. Even the Westminster Confession, the most authoritative Reformed confession, states the matter only in the positive sense, affirming that all elect infants are received into heaven. It does not require belief in the existence of any non-elect infants. Those who insist that all we can say is that elect infants are saved while non-elect infants are not confuse the issue by assuming or presuming the existence of non-elect infants and leaving the matter there.

We must remember that God is both omnipotent and omniscient. He gave these little ones life, knowing before the creation of the world that they would die before reaching moral maturity and thus the ability to sin by intention and choice. Did He bring these infants — who would never consciously sin — into the world merely as the objects of His wrath?

As the Scriptures say, ” The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.”

As a Calvinist, I believe in predestination–and you can’t go against that teaching and say it’s not in the Bible:

Matthew 24:22 “And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved; but for the ELECT’S sake those days shall be shortened.”

Matthew 24:24 “. . . insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very ELECT.”

Matthew 24:31 “. . . and they shall gather together HIS ELECT from the four winds . . . ”

Romans 8.28-33 N.B. V 33 “Who shall lay anything to the charge of GOD’S ELECT? It is God that justifieth.”

Romans 9:11 “For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to ELECTION might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. ”

Romans 11:5, 7 “Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according TO THE ELECTION OF GRACE. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but THE ELECTION hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. ”

Romans 11:28 “. . . but as touching the ELECTION, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes. ”

Col. 3.12 “Put on therefore, as the ELECT of God. . .”

I Thes. 1:4 “Knowing, brethren beloved, YOUR ELECTION OF GOD.”

II Thes. 2:13 “. . . because God hath from the beginning CHOSEN you to salvation . . . ”

II Tim. 2:10 “Therefore I endure all things for the ELECT’S SAKES, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.”

Titus 1 “. . . according to the faith of God’s ELECT. . . ”

II Peter 1:10 “. . . give diligence to make your calling and ELECTION sure . . .”

Election is in the Bible. You just can’t deny it.

We believe that God is 100% Sovereign. He knows all things, and has always known all things. Yet we also see 100% human responsibility in the Bible, as seen in the death of Christ: “ye by wicked hands have crucified and slain.”

It’s an antinomy.

“Charles Haddon Spurgeon, was once asked if he could reconcile divine sovereignty and human responsibility. “I wouldn’t try,” he replied; “I never reconcile friends.” Friends? Yes, friends. They are both in the same book — the Bible.”*

Now, I believe that God has chosen all of us before the beginning of time. Many would object to this, and say that we have a “free will” in matters like salvation. But if we were to decide on our own , our destiny would be in our own hands. If our destiny is in our own hands, then we can regenerate ourselves–salvation my ourselves and not by grace alone.

John 1:13 ” Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”

After we are saved, we cannot lose that salvation (read I Peter 1:15; Ps. 37:28; John 10:27-29; Phil. 1:6, Heb. 13:5)

Romans 8:30 “Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called; and whom he called, them he also justified; and whom he justified, them he also glorified.”

You may be asking yourself then “If God has already elected his sheep, why then is their any need for evangelism?”

I’ll take a look at that later, but it is easily reconciled to predestination.

It is of the utmost importance to believe in the doctrine of election. As the Founders Ministries puts it:

1. If it were not for God’s Electing love no one would be saved, that is, man left to himself would not seek God.

2. No one will be clearly convinced, as he ought to be, that our salvation flows from the Fountain of Free Mercy until he is acquainted with God’s Sovereign, Unconditional, Electing Love. Ignorance of this great biblical truth detracts from divine glory and diminishes true humility. On the other hand, an understanding of Election honors God and humbles man. Therefore, a true biblical view of Election brings Praise, Reverence, Admiration and Worship to God; and brings humility, diligence, consolation and comfort to believers.

Bibliography:
* http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/bpcolumn.asp?ID=1679
* Founders Ministries
* http://www.comereason.org/theo_issues/theo060.asp

24 Responses to “Created to Die?”

  1. Lindsey Says:

    Thanks Tim,
    I like how you answered me. It is a tough issue, that involves many aspects. I totally believe in predestination, (though I must admit that I have struggled with it in the past). I myself believe that infants will be in heaven, but there are many who will disagree with me. This is the tricky part: Adamic sin guilt is a term used to describe Adam’s sin imputed to our account, and this sin guilt is with each of us from the moment of birth. (See Romans 5:12-21, 1 Corinthians 15:22)We’re condemned under Adam. But then we have personal sins, which are the sins we commit ourselves. We are judged for these sins, as we see in Revelations at the Great White Throne. Both these aspects together create the reason that we need Jesus. No one on the face of the earth has not fallen under Adam’s sin, and no one likewise has not commited personal sins- except for infants and little children. So this is the predicament: Infants have Adamic sin guilt, but they do NOT have personal sins. That is why it is so confusing to me.

  2. Lindsey Says:

    (oh and by the way, when I say ‘little children’ I mean very very little children, though of course, as you mentioned, the age of accountability is different for everyone)

  3. Lindsey Says:

    I’m afraid I’m being very unclear…to understand what I’m saying about this adamic sin stuff better than I could explain it, go to http://www.frankgriffith.net/Download.html and download the powerpoint presentation to give you a quick overview… though the audio file is better to understand the whole thing.

  4. Lindsey Says:

    And one more thing… in my question, I had gotten adamic sin nature and sin guilt confused. I meant to say sin guilt. sin nature is completely different.

  5. Pete Says:

    This is funny… I just did a relatively large post about predestination at my blog you may be interested in reading. I’m also having a (typically) large discussion about it in the comments. :)

    Good post… I’m with you all the way on this one. ;)

  6. David Ketter Says:

    Well…you all know where I stand on this (may I repeat that I’m not Arminian…) and I swear that I’ve been working on my article…scrambling through Calvin’s Commentaries is NOT an easy task….not to mention that time is becoming a rarer commidity by the second (especially for me…If wealth was measured in time, I would be broke).

  7. Pete Says:

    David, I can’t help saying again that your position confuses me to no end… :) We have a knack for usually disagreeing, but I still think you’re a great guy with a great blog. :)

    Anyway, can’t wait for your article! Hopefully it will clear some things up for me, right? :)

  8. Tim Says:

    Pete,
    Awesome article! I’m planning on a follow-up to this one, and I think I may quote you on some points. And I can’t wait to see your article David…

  9. Karen Kovaka Says:

    That was great, Tim. Thanks a lot for all the sources you quoted. I wasn’t aware of them, and I learned a lot. Wayne Grudem is the best!

  10. David Ketter Says:

    *Realizes that Matt of “From the Pulpit” is the only one that isn’t Calvinist*

    I’m surrounded! ;)

  11. Pete Says:

    Thanks Tim! Really glad you liked it…:) Can’t wait to read you second article…;)

    David: Muwhahahaha! :)

  12. Pete Says:

    Ack… *youR*

    Btw, nice new template. :)

  13. One Salient Oversight Says:

    Satire alert. The following article is relevant to this topic:
    —————
    FBI investigates “Evangelical child killers”

    The FBI is investigating the leaders of a controversial new Christian Fundamentalist group that has been encouraging Evangelical Christians to kill their own children.

    Although no charges have been laid yet, at least 52 parents from Christian churches throughout America are being questioned.

    Known as the “Child salvation” movement, it is based on the understanding that children are without sin, and are automatically granted entry into heaven when they die.
    ————
    Read the rest of the article here:
    http://one-salient-oversight.blogspot.com/2005/09/fbi-investigates-evangelical-child.html

  14. Lindsey Says:

    that’s horrible!

  15. David Ketter Says:

    What a miscontstrual of real Evangelical beliefs!!!

  16. Tim Says:

    Sad indeed.

    Salient,
    When you leave a link to your own site, please link to me (like a trackback.) I’d appreciate it…I would delete it otherwise, but in this case, I’ll make an exception.

  17. David Ketter Says:

    Tim,

    I finished my article. You can read it at Predestination: A Biblical Concept. Looking forward to your comments!

    David

  18. Tim Says:

    Totally awesome…I may respond later today…we’ll see…lots of Spanish to work on.

  19. David Boskovic Says:

    Hey guys, Salient’s post is humour. Just remember. I think somebody was taking it seriously. :O

  20. Tim Says:

    ROFL. Maybe he should put the “Satire Alert” in bold. Boy, he made us all sound really smart.

  21. The Account » Blog Archive » Predestination Roundup Says:

    [...] Created to Die? by Agent Tim [...]

  22. Agent Tim Online :: Culture And Theology--Hand In Hand Says:

    [...] Here’s my view on the issue, though I’m sure at about 10:00 I’ll be more confused than ever. [...]

  23. Agent Tim Online :: Culture And Theology--Hand In Hand Says:

    [...] 9:20 AM I’ve already been persuaded. [...]

  24. Cam Says:

    Tim,
    I just stumbled upon this site for the first time. I’m grateful and amazed at your position on the Sovereignty of God and predestination…
    Building upon that premise, then, isn’t the question of whether or not an aborted infant goes to heaven explained right there? The elect go to heaven no matter what time they are called Home. Jacob was loved by God, and Esau hated, *before* being born.

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