Comments on: Halloween: Good or Bad? Open Thread

By: kay

kay — Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:39:17 +0000

I think why would a christian want to celebrate a holiday that has such a satanic meaning behind it. God us from the darkness into the light and people just go right beck into the darkness.

By: Agent Tim Online » Blog Archive » Halloween Happy?

Agent Tim Online » Blog Archive » Halloween Happy? — Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:48:13 +0000

[...] Agent Tim Online Previous Discussion [...]

By: Toad7734

Toad7734 — Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:27:54 +0000

Atheist participate in Christmas, what’s the difference.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:39:21 +0000

David, I’ll be writing an article on Genelution about this within the next couple of days. Hopefully, I’ll be able to be a bit more clear. Sorry about all the confusion.

By: David Ketter

David Ketter — Mon, 24 Oct 2005 02:13:39 +0000

As far as Christmas goes, I’d rather celebrate it during the actual time of Jesus’ birth - during the festival of Sukkot! (this is hinted at in John where it says that “the Word became flesh and _tabernacled_ among us”

As for Easter, it’s really just coincidence that Passover and the festival of “Astarte” occured at the same time. The fact that European pagans kept their own name for it is just different. Personally, I’d much rather that the resurrection was celebrated during Passover…

By: David Ketter

David Ketter — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:31:05 +0000

I’m not going to respond to all of your post because I don’t have the time, however I will answer your question:

I’m curious how many people have said that to you, as I personally have never heard that said to me or anyone I know.

Too many to count. Just Kidding. Actually, I was once part of a debate board and even when it wasn’t the issue, “Christian participation” in Halloween always came back to bite. Now, on that board, there were 10 Christians (including myself), half of which said it was okay to celebrate Halloween. There were nearly 200 other people - Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists, and Satanists (maybe 5 of those) and they kept pointing it out - every one of them. That’s one example of quite a few on the net (overally, probably close to 2,000 people have pointed it out directly to me).

I’ve met plenty of those in real life - maybe 50 or 60…

It’s really a widespread argument and I haven’t included articles and rants written by them.

By: Jonathan Knox

Jonathan Knox — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:30:36 +0000

I see nothing wrong with celebrating All Hallows Eve in its Christian sense. The idea of celebrating all saints goes back to the times of the Church Fathers. In 615 Pope Boniface IV made May 13 the Feast of All Martyrs in commemoration of the dedication of the Pantheon to the Blessed Virgin Mary and all the Saints. By 844, the feast had become All Saints and Pope Gregory IV transferred the feast to November 1. Pope Sixtus IV made All Saints a holy day of obligation, and gave it the vigil of All Saints (All Hallows’ Eve). Whether the date was moved for pilgrims’ convenience or to Christianize pagan holidays is another matter, but Pope Gregory I in the sixth century said that it was easier to convert pagans by allowing them to keep some of their outward practices, as long as they are no longer for their pagan gods. Instead, they would be celebrating the true God. Just because a Christian holiday coincides in the calendar with a pagan holiday, that doesn’t make the Christian celebration evil. Easter and Christmas occur around pagan celebrations, but few sound minded people accuse us of paganism in those instances. Some similarities have been brought up. So what? Let’s look at Christmas. Date? Within days of Yule and Saturnalia. What did people have during Yule? Christmas trees. What did people do in ancient Rome during Saturnalia? They exchanged gifts. Similarities don’t mean we can’t celebrate the old Christian holidays. We can also use these holidays to remember that there are wicked practices out there, and we can pray for their conversion.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:45:29 +0000

Okay, I agree. Gay marriage was a bad example. Here’s the point I was trying to make. Participation does NOT mean that we have to do everything they do. We don’t have to put up the decorations, we don’t have to Trick or Treat necessarily, though my family did when we had less kids. But we DO still have to be involved. That means maybe handing out candy. That means maybe making a “haunted house” with purpose, something like a HellPath. That means maybe Trick or Treating with some unsaved friends. You’re right, we DO need to educate them. But who wants to listen to someone who doesn’t participate in the activity? I have several friends that participate in Halloween, allowing them to witness to their friends by their costume, attitude, and decorations.

Just because the lost say that we are hypocrites for doing something, does that mean that we should stop? Not necessarily. I’m curious how many people have said that to you, as I personally have never heard that said to me or anyone I know.

The bottom line is this. We are empowered by Jesus Christ to go to the unreached. Jesus and his disciples went into the areas where the most sinners were, ate dinner with sinners, talked with them. But Jesus never sinned, and for the most part, the disciples went in with the intent to do good, and were therefore able to withstand the evil and the temptations.

Celebrating Halloween, to the majority of the population, is nothing but dressing up and getting candy. To some, it means scaring themsleves and others. And to a few, it means celebrating the devil and his demons.

Celebration would mean accepting Halloween as okay. Participation merely means being involved. And that’s what we need to be.

By: David Ketter

David Ketter — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 01:56:35 +0000

Note, I did not say that we should CELEBRATE Halloween, only participate in it.

And note that I didn’t use the word “celebrate” but the word “participate.” THAT is what the lost use against us!

The very fact that Halloween is about fear and is not of God is reason enough for us to get involved. Christians are active in the Marriage debate, but Gay marriage is not of God. So by your argument, we shouldn’t be involved in that either.

Not at all…my logic can’t be used that way because it is the God-ordained institution (marriage) that is being attacked and, if we apply your reasoning, then Christians would have to participate in “gay marriage” - which we most certainly WILL NOT DO.

Most people simply do not realize that what they are putting up is related to that sort of thing. Some Christians do not even realize it.

That means we need to educate them, not join them!

By: Andrew

Andrew — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 01:11:47 +0000

David, I’ll address your comment first.

“I have heard many anti-Christian debaters use Christian participation in Halloween as a weapon against our “hypocrisy” and “double-mindedness.”

“For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, and of love…” Halloween is about fear, not about God’s power and love.”

Note, I did not say that we should CELEBRATE Halloween, only participate in it. The very fact that Halloween is about fear and is not of God is reason enough for us to get involved. Christians are active in the Marriage debate, but Gay marriage is not of God. So by your argument, we shouldn’t be involved in that either.

Justin, I am not suggesting that at all. What I am suggesting is that indeed, these people HAVE become apathetic followers of society. That means that it is even more important that we stay involved in the world’s celebrations and such activities. The church has already caused society to put up barriers around us, and we don’t need another reason for them to do so.

Tim, just because people put up scary decorations does not mean that they know what those decorations represent. I would be willing to bet that in a converstation with the majority of the population, you would not hear the word Demon or Satan come out once. Most people simply do not realize that what they are putting up is related to that sort of thing. Some Christians do not even realize it. The point that most of them do not realize what they are celebrating makes it even more important that we stay involved and participate, just do it with the purpose of glorifying God and spreading His word.

The two examples of HellPaths, as I’ve come to call them, is extrememly correct. Celebration is different than participation.