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	<title>Comments on: Compassion for the Lost Part II</title>
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	<description>Agent Tim's blog.</description>
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		<title>By: Gabriel</title>
		<link>http://www.agenttimonline.com/2006/04/20/compassion-for-the-lost-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-6651</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabriel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Apr 2006 01:20:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think Nancy Pearcey&#039;s point is that we are to distinguish between the goodness that is inherent in all human beings as created in the image of God and the sinfulness that came as a result of the fall. This is the distinction between Elvis&#039;s good singing ability and his immoral lyrics.

According to her, we must address both, and that if we leave one or the other out, we are not truly expressing a biblical worldview.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Nancy Pearcey&#8217;s point is that we are to distinguish between the goodness that is inherent in all human beings as created in the image of God and the sinfulness that came as a result of the fall. This is the distinction between Elvis&#8217;s good singing ability and his immoral lyrics.</p>
<p>According to her, we must address both, and that if we leave one or the other out, we are not truly expressing a biblical worldview.</p>
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		<title>By: Spunky</title>
		<link>http://www.agenttimonline.com/2006/04/20/compassion-for-the-lost-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-6574</link>
		<dc:creator>Spunky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 16:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I agree that we are called to be fruitful and subdue the earth.  But I&#039;m not sure that&#039;s a mandate to create culture.   

I think there are two issues at work here.  Making disciples which is the great commission.  We are all told to do that.  And live our lives with a biblical worldview.    Indeed we are to have compassion on the lost.   But I don&#039;t think compassion for the lost translates to appreciating the fruits of the lost.   On an inividual level I agree that we can engage an individual about the origin of their talent.  

However, quoting from the original Nancy Pearcy passage, 

&lt;b&gt;Similarly, a Christian radio personality recently wagged a stern finger at Elvis Presley for the immoral content of his songs, without ever asking whether his songs were good as music (which they certainly were),&lt;/b&gt; 

That seems to me to be a bit much for her to condemn the Christian for &quot;wagging a stern finger at Elvis Preseley&quot; and at the same time calling the music itself &quot;good&quot;.    By whose standard does she declare it good.   Without going into the lyrics many of his songs speak of lust and other such things.   The melodies may be beautiful but put with those lyrics they lose any sense of beauty.    So why is Nancy condemning the Christian?  

Perhaps the radio DJ didn&#039;t present his truth in the best manner.   But how many of us will ever get the opportunity to ask a famous pop star about the origins of their talent.   Meanwhile, when we refuse to speak against such debacuhery and filth the standard continues to slide downward. 

Why isn&#039;t Nancy Pearcey engaging the DJ in the origins of his talent instead of condemning him?

How many Christian children are now attracted to country music because of the &quot;beauty of its melody&quot; yet the lyrics promote very ungodly things.  Are we supposed to listen to it so that we can &quot;engage the culture&quot;?   I would love discuss the origins of some of these &quot;talented&quot; country stars with them.  But until I&#039;m given the opportunity am I supposed to just sit and enjoy the music?   

The difficulty when we talk about engaging the culture is the weakening that inevitable happens in the believer as they engage them.   It is undeniable.  Bad company corrupts good morals.  This is a truth of scripture.  

So we must look at all things from a biblical worldview.   And when we engage the culture we don&#039;t suspend the standards in the process.   Condemning the Christian for condemning Elvis Presley does exactly that.    

According to Nancy Pearcey, &quot;Our first response to the great works of human culture-whether in art or technology or economic productivity---should be to celebrate them as reflections of Godâ€™s own creativity.&quot;

So is she asking us to evaluate Elvis Presley this way.... in his God given smooth baritone voice, Elvis  lures the listener into lust?  

I&#039;m sorry but that&#039;s just not something I celebrate as God&#039;s creativity.    His talent is indeed from God but in its corrupted state, I don&#039;t thing we are called to celebrate it.   No matter what our cultural mandate is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that we are called to be fruitful and subdue the earth.  But I&#8217;m not sure that&#8217;s a mandate to create culture.   </p>
<p>I think there are two issues at work here.  Making disciples which is the great commission.  We are all told to do that.  And live our lives with a biblical worldview.    Indeed we are to have compassion on the lost.   But I don&#8217;t think compassion for the lost translates to appreciating the fruits of the lost.   On an inividual level I agree that we can engage an individual about the origin of their talent.  </p>
<p>However, quoting from the original Nancy Pearcy passage, </p>
<p><b>Similarly, a Christian radio personality recently wagged a stern finger at Elvis Presley for the immoral content of his songs, without ever asking whether his songs were good as music (which they certainly were),</b> </p>
<p>That seems to me to be a bit much for her to condemn the Christian for &#8220;wagging a stern finger at Elvis Preseley&#8221; and at the same time calling the music itself &#8220;good&#8221;.    By whose standard does she declare it good.   Without going into the lyrics many of his songs speak of lust and other such things.   The melodies may be beautiful but put with those lyrics they lose any sense of beauty.    So why is Nancy condemning the Christian?  </p>
<p>Perhaps the radio DJ didn&#8217;t present his truth in the best manner.   But how many of us will ever get the opportunity to ask a famous pop star about the origins of their talent.   Meanwhile, when we refuse to speak against such debacuhery and filth the standard continues to slide downward. </p>
<p>Why isn&#8217;t Nancy Pearcey engaging the DJ in the origins of his talent instead of condemning him?</p>
<p>How many Christian children are now attracted to country music because of the &#8220;beauty of its melody&#8221; yet the lyrics promote very ungodly things.  Are we supposed to listen to it so that we can &#8220;engage the culture&#8221;?   I would love discuss the origins of some of these &#8220;talented&#8221; country stars with them.  But until I&#8217;m given the opportunity am I supposed to just sit and enjoy the music?   </p>
<p>The difficulty when we talk about engaging the culture is the weakening that inevitable happens in the believer as they engage them.   It is undeniable.  Bad company corrupts good morals.  This is a truth of scripture.  </p>
<p>So we must look at all things from a biblical worldview.   And when we engage the culture we don&#8217;t suspend the standards in the process.   Condemning the Christian for condemning Elvis Presley does exactly that.    </p>
<p>According to Nancy Pearcey, &#8220;Our first response to the great works of human culture-whether in art or technology or economic productivity&#8212;should be to celebrate them as reflections of Godâ€™s own creativity.&#8221;</p>
<p>So is she asking us to evaluate Elvis Presley this way&#8230;. in his God given smooth baritone voice, Elvis  lures the listener into lust?  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry but that&#8217;s just not something I celebrate as God&#8217;s creativity.    His talent is indeed from God but in its corrupted state, I don&#8217;t thing we are called to celebrate it.   No matter what our cultural mandate is.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.agenttimonline.com/2006/04/20/compassion-for-the-lost-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-6570</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 15:38:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I guess my question for you Jake would be &quot;why wouldn&#039;t those verse be saying that?&quot; I mean, is God against advancements in technology? No, as long as the glory is given to Him. I don&#039;t see why that verse is not about building bridges, learning new things, developing better cars, and writing beautiful poetry. 

Now, &quot;just having kids and filling up the earth.&quot; When you have a whole lot of people, you have a culture. And it can either be a terribly sinful culture, it can be a culture that has only an outward change, or it can be a culture with a biblical worldview. We need to work to change the people&#039;s hearts on this earth to develop a godly culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess my question for you Jake would be &#8220;why wouldn&#8217;t those verse be saying that?&#8221; I mean, is God against advancements in technology? No, as long as the glory is given to Him. I don&#8217;t see why that verse is not about building bridges, learning new things, developing better cars, and writing beautiful poetry. </p>
<p>Now, &#8220;just having kids and filling up the earth.&#8221; When you have a whole lot of people, you have a culture. And it can either be a terribly sinful culture, it can be a culture that has only an outward change, or it can be a culture with a biblical worldview. We need to work to change the people&#8217;s hearts on this earth to develop a godly culture.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.agenttimonline.com/2006/04/20/compassion-for-the-lost-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-6566</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>_&quot;The first phrase &#039;be fruitful and multiply.&#039; Means to develop the social world: build families, churches, schools, cities, government, laws,â€ says Nancy Pearcey, &quot;The second phrase â€˜subdue the earth,â€™ means to harness the natural world: plant crops, build bridges, design computers, compose music. This passage is sometimes called the Cultural Mandate because it tells us that our original purpose was to create cultures, build civilizationsâ€”nothing less.&quot;_

Maybe it&#039;s just me, but going from &quot;be fruitful and multiply&quot; and &quot;subdue the earth&quot; to create laws and design computers seems like a stretch. When God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply, it seems like he just meant &quot;have kids and fill up the earth.&quot; And I&#039;ve always thought &quot;subdue the earth&quot; was telling them to take over and take care of the beautiful garden God had put them in. Building a bridge or a computer doesn&#039;t really follow, imho.

I&#039;m not saying it&#039;s wrong to build computers or make music, but I don&#039;t really see this verse telling us to do all those things. Thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>_&#8221;The first phrase &#8216;be fruitful and multiply.&#8217; Means to develop the social world: build families, churches, schools, cities, government, laws,â€ says Nancy Pearcey, &#8220;The second phrase â€˜subdue the earth,â€™ means to harness the natural world: plant crops, build bridges, design computers, compose music. This passage is sometimes called the Cultural Mandate because it tells us that our original purpose was to create cultures, build civilizationsâ€”nothing less.&#8221;_</p>
<p>Maybe it&#8217;s just me, but going from &#8220;be fruitful and multiply&#8221; and &#8220;subdue the earth&#8221; to create laws and design computers seems like a stretch. When God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply, it seems like he just meant &#8220;have kids and fill up the earth.&#8221; And I&#8217;ve always thought &#8220;subdue the earth&#8221; was telling them to take over and take care of the beautiful garden God had put them in. Building a bridge or a computer doesn&#8217;t really follow, imho.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying it&#8217;s wrong to build computers or make music, but I don&#8217;t really see this verse telling us to do all those things. Thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: Karen Kovaka</title>
		<link>http://www.agenttimonline.com/2006/04/20/compassion-for-the-lost-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-6554</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Kovaka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 00:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agenttimonline.com/2006/04/20/compassion-for-the-lost-part-ii/#comment-6554</guid>
		<description>I loved part II.  Great series!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I loved part II.  Great series!</p>
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		<title>By: Catez</title>
		<link>http://www.agenttimonline.com/2006/04/20/compassion-for-the-lost-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-6553</link>
		<dc:creator>Catez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 22:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Nice summary Tim. I think that this ties in with your Part One in the sense that part of creating culture is that compassion is part of that culture we create. So it isn&#039;t just about the things we create, or the systems we might create, but as Christians there is also the spirit in which we create - and compassion is part of that. So is mercy - and there are other things but I think it can be a good reminder to think on compassion and mercy, since the world displays so little of it (look at all the hostility and anger going on in the world).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice summary Tim. I think that this ties in with your Part One in the sense that part of creating culture is that compassion is part of that culture we create. So it isn&#8217;t just about the things we create, or the systems we might create, but as Christians there is also the spirit in which we create &#8211; and compassion is part of that. So is mercy &#8211; and there are other things but I think it can be a good reminder to think on compassion and mercy, since the world displays so little of it (look at all the hostility and anger going on in the world).</p>
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		<title>By: Agent Tim Online :: Culture And Theology--Hand In Hand</title>
		<link>http://www.agenttimonline.com/2006/04/20/compassion-for-the-lost-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-6550</link>
		<dc:creator>Agent Tim Online :: Culture And Theology--Hand In Hand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 20:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agenttimonline.com/2006/04/20/compassion-for-the-lost-part-ii/#comment-6550</guid>
		<description>[...] Continue To Part II [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Continue To Part II [...]</p>
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