Not that this is important, but the sites you gave me weren’t really “source documents.”

What I meant by that is that Wallbuilders has the largest collection of source documents relating to the Founding Fathers aside from some museum in DC. And you can generally find the direct quotes from that on their website – which is why I pointed you there.

Can you provide a quote from Jefferson showing that he “intended [the Jefferson Bible] be a primer to introduce the pagan Indian tribes to the moral example of Jesus Christ”? You link to wallbuilders, but they simply restate the claim with no references or sources whatsoever.

I was unable to find the citation for that particular quote; however you can see a somewhat lengthened version of what I linked to before here with several citations in and around the text relating to Jefferson.

How do you explain a letter Jefferson wrote to a friend in which he described his process of editing the New Testament as “arranging the matter which is evidently his, and which is as easily distinguishable as diamonds in a dunghill”?

Jefferson believed, as did Franklin, that the Scriptures as they existed at his time had been corrupted. This is well-documented. However, this in no wise meant that “Jefferson did not believe in a personal God” (as claimed in the Letter to the Editor that we are arguing about); in the case at point Jefferson was simply isolating the teachings of Christ that he believed were absolutely authentic. Considering that he held the heretical view that Scripture was corrupt, his authorship of The Life and Morals of Jesus Christ is perfectly understandable.

I don’t have time to go indepth on Franklin and prayer, since I’m already involved in something about Joe McCarthy at the wilted rose, and two discussions I’m lagging behind in at Virtue Magazine. Suffice to say, I am not the one spreading myths here. Perhaps I’ll write a future article about this for Virtue.

It is not my intention to become embroiled in an argument; rather I simply wish to point out that, in fact, there is only one accurate statement in the letter to the editor that we are discussing. Just don’t tell people that Jefferson was a deist or that he didn’t believe in a personal God. . . .

In Him,

David S. MacMillan III

In Article VII. line II the text reads:

“Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven…”

In the year of our what? Say it with me now. In the year of our LORD.

Pfft, liberals.

Can you provide a quote from Jefferson showing that he “intended [the Jefferson Bible] be a primer to introduce the pagan Indian tribes to the moral example of Jesus Christ”? You link to wallbuilders, but they simply restate the claim with no references or sources whatsoever.

How do you explain a letter Jefferson wrote to a friend in which he described his process of editing the New Testament as “arranging the matter which is evidently his, and which is as easily distinguishable as diamonds in a dunghill”?

And in the same letter, Jefferson wrote: “We must reduce our volume to the simple Evangelists, select, even from them, the very words only of Jesus, paring off the amphiboligisms into which they have been led, by forgetting often, or not understanding, what had fallen from him, by giving their own misconceptions as his dicta, and expressing unintelligibly for others what they had not understood themselves.” (http://www.ffrf.org/day/?day=13&month=4,http://www.answers.com/topic/jefferson-bible, http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=6040) It certainly sounds like Jefferson held a high view of the New Testament, doesn’t it?

And from the Monticello: Home of Thomas Jefferson website: “In 1819 Jefferson began isolating the passages from the Bible which he believed to be the authentic words and teachings of Jesus.” (This is from a page selling a version of the book).

Other quotes from Jefferson: “I made, for my own satisfaction, an extract from the Evangelists of the text of His morals, selecting those only whose style and spirit proved them genuine, and his own…. It was too hastily done, however, being the work of one or two evenings only, while I lived at Washington, overwhelmed with other business, and it is my intention to go over it again at more leisure. This shall be the work of the ensuing winter.14″ (http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=6040)

A description of some of the Jefferson Bible:

“In accordance with his plan to give extracts from the life and morals of Jesus, Jefferson simply eliminated everything in the Gospels which involves what are technically called strict mysteries, as well as all comments of the Evangelists on the doctrines of Christ. Thus every reference to the Divinity of Christ, Baptism, the Eucharist, and the Primacy is omitted. For this reason also the fourth Gospel is practically ignored. Not a single miracle of Christ is listed; so much so that where a moral precept occurs in a miraculous context, the precept will be cut out of its setting, verses skipped if necessary, in order to avoid quoting a miraculous event. To illustrate this prejudice against miracles, we may examine what Jefferson does when he quotes the long instruction of Christ regarding divorce, recorded in the first Gospel. Verses 1 to 3 of chapter 19 in Matthew, which begin the instruction, read as follows in the full text:

And it came to pass that when Jesus had finished these sayings, he departed from Galilee, and came into the coasts of Judea beyond Jordan.

And great multitudes followed him, and he cured them there.

The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him: Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?19

Jefferson quotes these verses in sequence, and beyond them to verse 26 inclusive. Yet out of all these twenty-six verses, he cut out of the printed English text just five words, italicized above in verse 2, namely, “. . . and he cured them there.”20 In the Greek, the words excised with a knife and a blank left are . . . Kai etherapemsen autos ekei, with corresponding blanks also in the Latin and French versions.

The same sort of excision is found throughout the collection, not only with regard to the miracles of Christ but in every case where reference is made to the supernatural life or to supernatural means of sanctification. To take only one example each from the other three Gospels, St. Mark in the first chapter, verse 4, relates that: “John did baptize in the wilderness and preached a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.” Jefferson carefully cut out the italicized portion.21 St. Luke in the second chapter describes the return of Jesus from Jerusalem to Nazareth at the age of twelve, saying, “And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them; and his mother kept all these things carefully in her heart. And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature and grace before God and men.” Again the italicized phrases are deleted.22 In the Gospel according to St. John, the Evangelist begins the narrative of the Last Supper with the words: “And supper being ended, the devil having already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, to betray him, Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he had come forth from God and was going to God, he riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel and girded himself.” The whole center portion of the narrative is excised.23

(http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=6040)

I don’t have time to go indepth on Franklin and prayer, since I’m already involved in something about Joe McCarthy at the wilted rose, and two discussions I’m lagging behind in at Virtue Magazine. Suffice to say, I am not the one spreading myths here. Perhaps I’ll write a future article about this for Virtue.

Franklin’s request for prayer was rejected. Franklin himself said: “The Convention, except three or four persons, thought prayers unnecessary.”

The fact was that this particular motion for prayer would have required an “official” prayer that would involve professional clergy – and at the time the Convention had no funds. Earlier, however, one of Franklin’s similar motions was met with extreme approval on all sides … why don’t you take a look at the source documents?

Jefferson once took a copy of the New Testament and deleted all sections containing supernatural aspects, including miracles and references to the trinity and the divinity of Jesus. Today his version of the New Testament is known as “the Jefferson Bible.” Jefferson showed it to friends but never published it during his lifetime–it was later published in 1903.

Jefferson himself said that this so-called “Jefferson Bible” was never intended to be looked upon as an actual rendition of the Scriptures. Rather, he said that it was intended to be a primer to introduce the pagan Indian tribes to the moral example of Jesus Christ. Again, feel free to take a look at the source documents rather than quoting hearsay.

I am pretty sure that my letter to the editor of the Daily Record will be published soon. The title is “Get Your Facts Straight!”

I am not trying to pummel you, Derek; I am just exposing a few myths here.

In Him,

David S. MacMillan III