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20 Responses to “A Fight For More Than Life”

1. Derek Says:
   July 25th, 2006 at 4:28 pm

   Excellent post, Tim! I completely agree that this is something we should be concerned about. I wish Abraham and his parents the best and I hope he makes it through this ordeal.

2. The Rebelution Says:
   July 25th, 2006 at 4:30 pm

   Abraham Cherrix: Tuesday Update…

   Across the Blogosphere: Check out Spunky Homeschool’s morning post for a roundup of bloggers covering the story. Spunky is doing an absolutely terrific job getting the word out and keeping people updated.

   UPDATE: Agent Tim has posted about Abraham….

3. One Salient Oversight Says:
   July 25th, 2006 at 8:22 pm

   This is not one of those issues that Christians should get all concerned about.

   A Christian couple near where I live decided not to undergo chemotherapy for the wife’s cervical cancer, instead claiming that God would miraculously heal her.

   They showed their faith by not accepting treatment and instead going on something called “The Hallelujah Diet”.

   She died. A Christian Oncologist who goes to my church has told me that Cervical cancer responds very well to chemotherapy in the early stages. She could have lived had she chosen to go via the path of modern medicine.

   In my books, this was gross, sinful negligence on the part of the couple, but mostly upon the husband for claiming that he knew the mind of God.

   In the quest for personal freedom and personal rights, is it a good idea to remain unmoved while a person makes decisions that will lead to their death?

   And if individuals don’t intervene, why can’t God use the state?

   After all, the bodies we have are not ours - they belong to God.

4. Tim Says:
   July 25th, 2006 at 9:31 pm

   “I’m not going to receive chemotherapy, no matter what. This is my body, the body that God gave to me and in the Bible it says for me to take care of this body,” said Abraham on Hannity and Colmes last night. “It’s my temple.”

   And I believe strongly that I have the right to take and do with my body as I please to do with it,” he continued, “because if you don’t — are not able to do with your body what you want to, then you have no rights whatsoever.”

   He said it better than me.

5. David Ketter Says:
   July 26th, 2006 at 11:56 am

   OSO:

   The couple you cite, was, indeed, scammed. The fact is that Abraham went through chemo already and it almost killed him - this time they want to add MORE radiation. I’d say I’d make much the same decision on this…

6. One Salient Oversight Says:
   July 26th, 2006 at 6:34 pm

   I wouldn’t say that couple were scammed - it gives the impression that they were led astray by the promises of another.

   I actually know the guy involved. He and his wife went out on a faith limb and declared that God has told them she would be healed.

   And why the mistrust of doctors and the medical profession? Granted they are sometimes wrong, but they do understand human physiology.

   If a doctor told me to have more chemo, I would be pretty arrogant and presumptuous to say “No, I know a better way”.

   If Abraham dies, chances are that he’ll die because he made the mistake of not taking God’s offer of healing presented to him by the medical establishment.

   And if that happens, he’s an idiot. I don’t care how much of a hero he makes himself out to be - but it is a very presumptuous attitude to think that we are sovereign over our bodies.

7. Dakota Says:
   July 26th, 2006 at 6:36 pm

   I don’t mind Abraham’s decision to forgo treatment. I have seen alternate treatments succeed or fail. The family of 12 down the street from us lost their father several years ago because they choose not to even consider a doctor. But the opposite can also happen (and has). What I find more disturbing is the state’s insistance that it has a responsability to ensure his health. Yes, he is 16 and still his parents ward, but it should be pretty obvious to any dummy that this is a decision of free will that the state should not play a part in. Medicine is called a “practice” for a reason, and I cannot see any way how the state could know better in this matter.

   By the way, his first name is Starchild. Just found that interesting…:-)

8. David Ketter Says:
   July 27th, 2006 at 8:50 am

   OSO:

   The thing of it is that the medical professionals themselves insist that he has less than 25% chance of surviving this round of chemo if forced to take it…

   And it isn’t as if he isn’t taking the oversight of medical professionals either - he’s under this alternative treatment through a medical clinic that works with this sort of thing anyway…

   Ditto to Dakota on all points (I found his first name rather interesting as well…actually, my thought on that was “No wonder he goes by Abraham!”)

9. John Says:
   July 27th, 2006 at 3:19 pm

   My wife spent three years taking care of children at one of the largest cancer centers in the country and we were discussing this case. I wanted to get her opinion. Like everyone here we really don’t know the medical history of this child so it is hard to say. When I told her what his plan was she said, “well that’s fine if that’s his decision but most likely he will die, or worse the cancer may in fact stop progressing but the cells will not be destroyed and it will most likely eventually come back” This is an extremely treatable and curable form of cancer but if not aggressively treated and it enters him lymph system it will eventually re-metastasize and spread, it will be just a matter of time. Chemotherapy is not fun, it can make kids very sick and the options are limited but it works. The odds are stacked against this young man if he doesn’t take his medically prescribed treatment but that is his choice. What most medical professionals fear is that people will see that he made the his choice choice based on conjecture and anecdotal evidence rather than hard science and facts. Simply put he probably will live with chemotherapy and radiation and will most likely die without it. My wife would have perscribed his treatment regiment that he wants to do for every kid she had but she would never do it becuase there is no hard evidence to back it up.

10. One Salient Oversight Says:
    July 27th, 2006 at 7:00 pm

    I’m assuming that the reason why the state has stepped in on this case is because they feel that Abraham, being a minor, does not have the right to make such a decision for himself. Moreover, the court has also probably determined that Abraham’s parents are unfit to determine their son’s treatment for whatever reason.

    If Abraham were 18, the court would not have stepped in.

    (I’m making assumptions here about US law that I don’t know much about - but I do know that most western societies allow people to refuse treatment if they desire… but only if they are in the right mind to do so, which, of course, takes into account age.)

    The four-year old son of a friend of mine contracted Leukemia a few years ago. The family are Christians, and they did not take alternative medicine seriously, opting instead for the wise counsel of medical opinion that God provided. After years of painful chemotherapy and the pain of seeing someone you love suffer, he is now pretty much cured.

    May I point out that the doctor who is proposing this treatment is probably doing so because he honestly believes that it is the best chance for Abraham’s survival.

    You need to realise that the alternative treatment that is proposed by Abraham and his family is called “Hoxsey therapy”, and is practiced in Tijuana in Mexico.

    The Hoxsey method has been studied scientifically by the American Cancer Society, who have rejected it because it offers no tangible benefit to cancer sufferers.

    Guys - you have to understand that if you are defending Abraham and his parents you are essentially defending the right of person to stop a medically sanctioned treatment program so they may be able to cross the border to munch on cactus in the belief that it would help them.

    The Hoxsey method is just another Hallelujah diet that I mentioned above. It is a load of hooey. The reason why the judge ordered them to not go beyond the borders of Virginia is to prevent them from crossing into Mexico.

11. Agent Tim Says:
    July 27th, 2006 at 8:03 pm

    John and OSO,
    Question for both of you: would you like the State to decide your medical treatment?

12. One Salient Oversight Says:
    July 27th, 2006 at 8:34 pm

    “would you like the State to decide your medical treatment?”

    If I was underage and my parents were idiots - YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

13. One Salient Oversight Says:
    July 27th, 2006 at 8:39 pm

    http://www.bccancer.bc.ca/PPI/UnconventionalTherapies/HoxseysHerbalTonicHoxseyHerbalTreatment.htm

    This is a page of medical information about Hoxsey Therapy

    Read it and ask yourself - would you be considered a good parent if you sent your cancer-ridden son to be treated this way instead of Chemo?

    And if you’re not a good parent (and you wouldn’t be), surely it is then up to the state to ensure the teenager has the best chance to live.

    THIS IS NOT ABOUT RIGHTS. IT IS NOT ABOUT THE STATES INTRUSION INTO FAMILY LIFE. IT IS ABOUT PREVENTING STUPID PARENTS KILLING THEIR SON BY USING A SUPERSTITIOUS MEXICAN THERAPY THAT IS OUTLAWED IN THE US BECAUSE IT DOES NOT WORK.

14. John Says:
    July 28th, 2006 at 12:56 am

    Tim: You say “State” like its the anti-christ. The reason the state is involved is becuase the medical professionals asked them to be involved becuase the family chose to ignore, along with their MINOR, not adult, child the medical advice that will have the BEST chance to save his life. Answer this then, how is the states intervention here any different than the incredible lenghts the State of Florida went to to save Terry Shivo?

    I also have to agree with Salient, when it comes down to it I’ll take the opinions of board certified oncologists over anyone else when it comes to treating cancer.

15. One Salient Oversight Says:
    July 28th, 2006 at 6:58 am

    Apology:

    The Hoxsey Therapy is not Mexican. It was developed in America, and its proponents only went to Mexico after the US Government shut down their US clinic because it was pandering snake oil.

16. David Ketter Says:
    July 28th, 2006 at 10:31 am

    I love it when people ignore what I say…

    They did Chemo…the doctor’s themselves say he has a small chance of surviving another round of it…what part of that wouldn’t make you think twice about pursuing it?

17. One Salient Oversight Says:
    August 4th, 2006 at 12:14 am

    David,

    I love it when people never back up their claims with links that prove their point.

    You say the guy had only a small chance of survival after his first round of chemo. None of the news reports I have read suggest this.

    Moreover, the fact that his treatment caused him to become sick and weak is a normal reaction to chemotherapy.

    They did Chemo…the doctor’s themselves say he has a small chance of surviving another round of it

    Show me the money - give me the link where they are recorded as saying it.

    But even if he had a 20% chance of survival with Chemo - it’s greater than the 0% chance of survival if he chooses Hoxsey.

18. Cristina of CounterCulture Says:
    August 16th, 2006 at 10:49 pm

    This is ridiculous!! I can`t believe that a court could make you do something that you don`t want…especially if it has to do with your own body and how to treat it.
    I`m going to post this story on my blog!!

19. Cristina Irizarry Says:
    August 16th, 2006 at 11:07 pm

    I think the state should have nothing to do with the decision Abraham and his family and His family make.We`re not talking about people who are abusing of their child or that are alcoholics or drug users.We`re talking about people who care and love their child.We can`t assume that God has not lead this family to take the decision they have.We can`t say that this court case is Gods way of helping this family either.
    The truth is that Chemo is not something that the body can take in a natural way.Our bodies respond better if we treat them with the same things that God has created.If you consider the many over the counter medicines and prescriptions everyone takes,you will see that non of those medicines cures.They all only make you feel better,only to need the medicines again.
    With Chemo is has gone both ways.But wouldn`t you think that a natural body would respond to natural medicine.That a God created body would respond to God created herbs and minerals? I do.

20. Amy Says:
    July 18th, 2007 at 4:18 pm

    this whole debate is stupid….if he wants to die then let him…just stop arguing

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