Tim .. your “rational” makes God the author of evil.

You asked for a verse . James 1:13 ‘Let no one say he is tempted by God .. for God cannot be tempted with evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone”. Obviously means solicitation to do evil not mere testing of trials.
Perhaps a study of God’s genera; will, determined will, and permissive will and ….. fill it in yourself as you study.

I believe you have both confused evil with God, and come to a disastrous conclusion.
The cross itself is a disaster, only the resurrection and Pentecost gives victory to – of/thru – the cross. The cross “alone”is the dead Christ where evil triumphs. Why not worship the crucifix? Christianity is 3 “gears” – cross – res – pentecost-
Anyway “B+” for trying .. better than most people. Better if we takes Job’s supposed “answer” as in = who can know the “full mind of God (= Mystery). Can we not let EVIL be EVIL without meshing God as evil perpetrator (sp/) and thus God cannot be the author of evil. Modernity currently has blended evil and good into non-existence and thus non-God.

(Thank You For The Help.)

You asked for a verse . James 1:13 ‘Let no one say he is tempted by God .. for God cannot be tempted with evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone”. Obviously means solicitation to do evil not mere testing of trials.
Perhaps a study of God’s genera; will, determined will, and permissive will and ….. fill it in yourself as you study.

I believe you have both confused evil with God, and come to a disastrous conclusion.
The cross itself is a disaster, only the resurrection and Pentecost gives victory to – of/thru – the cross. The cross “alone”is the dead Christ where evil triumphs. Why not worship the crucifix? Christianity is 3 “gears” – cross – res – pentecost-
Anyway “B+” for trying .. better than most people. Better if we takes Job’s supposed “answer” as in = who can know the “full mind of God (= Mystery). Can we not let EVIL be EVIL without meshing God as evil perpetrator (sp/) and thus God cannot be the author of evil. Modernity currently has blended evil and good into non-existence and thus non-God.

God allowed September 11 to happen. I know he raised up Pharaoh for a purpose, and His hand is on everything that happens. How that works with free will continues to be a mystery, but it cannot be denied that both exist in harmony in this world. As for “knowing” versus being involved, I’ll just have to say that I’m not using it to avoid the sovereignty of God, but rather to say that it is possible that God simply allowed it rather than being the direct force (in other words, he allowed evil to run its course). Yet it is very possible that He was the one who was at the very center.

It might be beneficial to try and use a different word to explain, so I’ll have to think on that.

So do just realize that this is a discussion among friends. Not that I know you as a friend, but, I need to treat you with love and respect in my comments. If I do not do that at any time please point it out to me. For I am a sinner and very prone to sin.

Let me make what I was saying about the cross more clear. Yes, Jesus chose to die. There is no question about that. But what about the people who murdered Him? Were they not part of the definite plan? And my main point was this, God does get involved with evil; He just never does it. God did not just know that people were going to kill Jesus. He had it planned that people would kill Him. God was controlling evil. Now, the mystery is that, though God controls evil, He never does it.

“Done by Man Not By God”

Do you understand mine (and I believe Tim’s) understanding of the sovereignty of God? I stated it before.

God has an eternal plan hat most glorifies Him. He accomplishes that will my moving through the choices of men. Yet, never causes men to chose something that they would not choose. Yes, the terrorist chose to fly the planes. But mysteriously, though they chose according to there desires, God was accomplishing His will through them. God’s eternal plan was done. Where I get that understanding is from passages like,

“In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,” (Eph 1:11)

“remember the former things of old;
for I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me,
declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done,
saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
and I will accomplish all my purpose,”(Isa 46:9-10)

If you have any questions about this fill free to ask.

Just remember Joey, the Bible should guide our thoughts about who God is and what He does. Emotions should never determine who God is.

Yes, the men who killed Jesus were acting by there own choices. And they will be punished for there actions. Yet, the mystery is, everything they choose to do was in direct accordance with God’s will!”

Yes But In A Way If You Think Jesus Immanual If You Will, Means God On Earth (God With Us) Gods Son Was And Will Be God On Earth. So If Jesus Didn’t Wan’t TO Die Then In A Song I Know(He Could Have Called 10,000 angels) Which He Didn’t. Jesus Knew Of His Fate And He Could Have Saved Himself But He Gave Himself For Our Sins Because He Was God On Earth. Don’t Get Me Wrong Yes Jesus Was God’s Son But He Also Was God Just In Physical Form. God did let that happen. Now What Happened On 9/11 Was Done by Man Not By God. SATAN TEMPTED MAN, AND MAN FOLLOWED AS I’VE POINTED OUT FOR THE THIRD TIME!!! GOD DID NOT TEMP MAN TO DO THAT AND DONT TRY TO TELL ME THAT MAN DID NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT!!! CAUSE YOU AS WELL AS I KNOW THAT SOMEONE WAS FLYING THOSE PLANES AND THAT MAN WAS INVOLVED!!!

I THANK YOU FOR LISTENING.

“No God Does Nothing Because He Sperates Himself From Evil.”

So, God had nothing to do with the cross? What the Pharisees and Romans did to Jesus was very evil! They murder a innocent man. Yet, when talking about this evil, the Bible says, “this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan[!] and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. (Acts 2:23)

Yes, the men who killed Jesus were acting by there own choices. And they will be punished for there actions. Yet, the mystery is, everything they choose to do was in direct accordance with God’s will!

The holiness of God is still very much true. God has never and will never commit a sin. Yet God is still sovereign. This is a paradox we cannot (or may never) be able to understand.

“Yes He May Have Very Well Known That It Was Going To Happen.”

So, if God knew it was going to happen, could He have stopped the planes flying into the towers? I take it that you would say yes. (since I don’t believe that you believe that God is not all powerful.) Then the question is, why did He not stop it?

One’s understanding of the will does not affect this situation. So, I will fore go that topic.

“Mean Think About It Does God Ever Say That Him And Satan Work Together”

Uh, No. But what does that have to do with this? Yes, Satan does evil on this earth. But as Chad pointed out, God reigns over Satan. Just as the men who killed Jesus was acting according to God’s plan. So to, Satan can only move and work where God governs. Do remember, God governs over Satan and evil, but is never responsible for evil.

——————————————————-

If you can Tim, please define yourself on “knowing.” The reason is that many people will use “knowing” to dodge the sovereignty issue. “God did not do it, He just ‘knew’ that it was going to happen.” You use knowing and doing the same. At least from what I am reading. May be I am reading you wrong though. Anyway, Are you affirming that God willed that 9/11 happened? Or, are you just saying that God knew it was going to happen?

Soli Deo Gloria
Charlie Albright

America fails to realize what our founding fathers did: that only by the mercy of God are we even breathing at this moment.

“Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?” -Thomas Jefferson

If we were to take a completely honest look at America, would we not find that our once (for the most part) God-fearing nation is now deserving of a Sodom-and-Gomorrah-equivalent punishment? Yet by the mercy of our Creator, we remain.

As to whether God intentionally put the 9/11 tragedy on our country, God alone knows.

Isaiah 55:8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord.”

We cannot try to conform God or His actions to our own finite imaginations; to do so would be foolish speculation. Someday we will know, when we are together with Him.

1 Corinthians 13:12 “For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.”

Perhaps one more thing we should realize is that Satan is NOT sovereign. Many times we blame our sin on him, when in fact we should be taking the responsibility for it. Did Satan cause 9/11? Perhaps he had a part in it (even saying this is speculation), but even if he did, as we see in the book of Job, he would have needed permission from God. Nothing escapes the vision of God. Nothing.

I really like that statement, although I’m not fully sure that I can say for sure that it never happens. Just think of Jesus here on earth asking who touched his cloak. For some reason, that just seems to point me in the direction that in “knowing” God is still in control because He’s always more than knowing. He is allowing it to happen, therefore that makes Lamentations make perfect sense.

Another interesting thing in relation to this story is to look at the time Jesus talked about the tower that fell on eighteen people.

Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

I do not find any Biblical reason to say that God did not do it!

Exactly. Hopefully I’ve said that clearly enough in the article.

The question is, did he do it for judgment. That I have to think on some more.

As do we all, and we will not really know until we see our Savior face to face. For now, we trust in His wisdom and sovereignty over all mankind.